Curse

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 04, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

Its verry nice Ryuken, a melee caster class that sets multy shot traps which are not easely interuptable.

the symbols are there continusly for their duration, so I agree with Dean Harper they should either be one shot and then dicipate, or have a (semi-, every x sec)constant(every sec) effect.

(I'm sorry to have to say this, I really am) However: (there its out)
Aren't tombstones quite heavy? Depending on what they are made off it's like between 40-60kg's. It'd kinda hard to carry around even 3 of them even for a short distance.
But WTH this is gw one can easely get around a RL problem like that
(say they hover instead of walk then weight would not matter at all, plus it would look awsome).

Aside from that symbolists seem really cool, with intresting casting animations for trowing around arcane inc and that forming itself into the specific shape of the symbol.

Flamable Tonic(alchemy)
<skill or spell whatever alchemy recipies are>
energy 5 activation 2 rechage 4
Trow a flask at target foe, for 6 seconds target foe is covered in a flamable liquid, the next time that that foe takes fire damge that foe is set on fire for 3...5...6 seconds.

Alpha(alchemy)
<skill or spell whatever alchemy recipies are>
energy 5 activation 4 recharge 8
Throw a flask of a reacitive substance at target foe, for 4...8...10 seconds that foe is covered in alpha and deals 1...3...5 less damge with physical attacks.

Omega(alchemy)
<skill or spell whatever alchemy recipies are>
energy 5 activation 4 recharge 8
Throw a flask of extremely reacitve substance at target foe, if that foe is covered with alpha that foe takes 20...40...50 cold damage and 20...40...50 fire damage. Otherwise foe is covered in omega for 5 seconds and whenever that foe is struck in melee that foe and the attacker both take 5...7...8 shock damige.

Lead to Gold(Elite alchemy)
enchantment
energy 10 activation 3 recharge 30
For 10...20...25 seconds your symbolics and preaching atributes are increased by 2 and you move 10...15...20% faster.

the alchemy skills are low in energy cost as they only require a little concentration when mixing the ingredients. they however do not cast so fast as mixing the potion takes time(in truth the ingredients should oftenly be boiled or the vapor caught) and the recharge time is long enough to gather new ingredients, skills with rare ingredients there for recharge slower.
a flask is of thin glass so will break when trown at someone not used as a weapon but trown imidiatly when the casting time in finished(I't would be rater stupid to run around with a bottle of explosive liquid in your hand while under a fire storm).

Acid Blob(alchemy)
trap
energy 5 activation 2 recharge 10
Set a acid blob trap, when activated, activating foe and all adjasent foes take 12...32...45 damige and their armour against physical damige is reduced by 24...46...52 for 10 seconds. This skill is easely interupted and the trap expires after 60 seconds.

If you mix 2 chemicals you won't need to tend to it, but if some on knocks over the alchemy instalation they suffer the consequences.

"Dwayna stand by us!"(preaching)
shout
energy 10 activation - recharge 15
Direct healing effectiveness on allies within ear shot increses by 5...10...12%

"Garth take us all!"(preaching)
shout
energy 15 activation - recharge 10
All creatures within ear shot under 10% health, become hexed with grasp of garth for 4 seconds, if they die spells cast on their corpses take 10...30...40% longer to cast.

"Dwayna embraces us!"(preaching)
shout
energy 15 activation - recharge 20
All allies within earshot become enchanted with embrace of Dwayna for 3...6...8 seconds, if 1 or more enchantments where to be removed from those allies dwayna's embrace ends and no enchantments are removed.

A preach i think should sound something devine like. Also they have long recharges becouse noone likes it when you are preaching people all the time(*nudge* *nudge* its a joke

).

again I say I like the class, it's definatly worth being implemented.

Thanks for informative response, I greatly appreciate it.

Your idea about tombstones being able to hover sounds like it would make more sense, so I'll edit that right away. The skills that you have shown me are phanomenal, and I'll shall implant them as soon as I have time. I also made the dropping of tomb stones officially instant and also inscribing the cricle. You still have to click on the # of TBS (short for tombstones

) you want.

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 04, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

You'll also be able to drop all of your tombstones at once and inscribe as many circles as you want..they last for X seconds though (like the ranger traps). And all your part members can pick your tomb stones up and also drop it as well. So this is another edit I will put in.

Crazyvietguy · Nov 04, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

I really like this concept class, more so than many of the others. I didnt get to read through all of it so probably some of my statements might be repeats/already answered.

I like the tombstones thing, i saw the post about the inventory thing and I agree. Perhaps you should treat tombstones somewhat like adrenilline (sp) in that you build them up over time. They look kinda like hovering orbs or stones around you. However you do not lose them after a certain period of time (Only at towns or outposts). You can only earn tombstones from hostile enemies, meaning NPC's will not give you stones and wild (tamable) pets will not either.
With other players picking up stones, I personally think there should be a skill that allows you to "drop" a tangible stone.

Not a big fan of Alchemy, I dont think you should be able to keep them in inventory but use them as spell or dropable item, but overall great concept class. This has good protential!!

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 05, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyvietguy

I really like this concept class, more so than many of the others. I didnt get to read through all of it so probably some of my statements might be repeats/already answered.

I like the tombstones thing, i saw the post about the inventory thing and I agree. Perhaps you should treat tombstones somewhat like adrenilline (sp) in that you build them up over time. They look kinda like hovering orbs or stones around you. However you do not lose them after a certain period of time (Only at towns or outposts). You can only earn tombstones from hostile enemies, meaning NPC's will not give you stones and wild (tamable) pets will not either.
With other players picking up stones, I personally think there should be a skill that allows you to "drop" a tangible stone.

Not a big fan of Alchemy, I dont think you should be able to keep them in inventory but use them as spell or dropable item, but overall great concept class. This has good protential!!

Thanks, your adrenilline concept sounds interesting, but I am still debating over it

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 06, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Once again I just want to say that a lot of your suggestions I'll put in, as I want this class to be a creation of many peoples opinion thanks

System_Crush · Nov 06, 2006, 11:11 AM // 11:11

I wanna debate too

In an earlyr post I was tryng to subtely hint the concept of arcane inc,
the idea was the arcane inc is a fluid like line behind the skills that require it, like adrenaline is a fire like line.

It would increase whenever you use a spell that does not require any inc,
the back story fortification is that: You always have the alchemy ingredients to create inc(becouse in real life its pretty easy to make a primitive inc) but only when you conjure magical energys the inc becomes charged with a power that can commune with the gods.

inc is used up when inscribing circles or symbols of any kind.

This is only to join in the 'Like adrenaline' debate, I am for myself not sure if i like tombstone way or the adrenalin way.
Pro: You ofcource are fully in charge of how to do it a whole new game mechanic like the tombstones would also be cool, it would set the class apart much more.
Con: Adrenaline like is more comparable/ intuetive for players that just picked up the Symbolist profession, and possibly easyer to implement, however maby less interesting for experienced players.

Also i noticed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryuken Tamashi

Lead to Gold(Elite alchemy)enchantment
energy 10 activation 3 recharge 30
For 10...20...25 seconds your symbolics and preaching atributes are increased by 2 and you move 10...15...20% faster. Req-4 ingredients

Did you make up from my explenation on recharge times;

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

...and the recharge time is long enough to gather new ingredients, skills with rare ingredients there for recharge slower...

That there should be something like ingredients for alchemy, or if thought of it yourself?

But with the potions and the tombstones, there is already a resonable complications level to the class. Adding a 8th element players have to keep track of

health
energy
team members
recharging skills || next skill to use
best target to attack || use skill on
tombstones
potions
Ingredients

may be slightly over the top, now already I have moments where I (appereantly)suddenly die, and am like WTF happened, it's really because I lost track of health and or teammebers(forgot to heal between my casts or did not notice the healer had died) I'm sure I'm not the only one, or then again maby I am and deserve a flaming

.

The ingedients are in sorta hypothetically; A alchemy off hand item would be a Ingredient Pouch or a alchemy pouch or something in that trend.
I meant with the recharge time as to alchemy skills that it should be belivably long enough for the symbolist to find(grab stuff from his bag or the enviroment not with a action required from the player but incorperated in static animations or alchemy casting animations) new ingredients.

adding a class that needs you to watch 3 more elements would be quite a dificulty leap, look at how much people used to diss the mesmer and later the assassin because they where slightly harder than the other classes.
Yet people figured out how to play them and now the assassin is leved especially by experienced payers.

And last but not least(I should get my laptop fixed i have to much time on my hands not being able to do shool work)
Potions as equipable like items are fine, however GW(as well as almost anything Anet has made) is pretty fast pased. in one of my other favorite games: AO the maximum attack speed in once every 2 seconds(perk actions between that,making it faster, and nano's interupting that,making it slower)
In AO there is plenty of time to open up yout inventory and use or equip an item, plus u have 10X10=100 quickslots to set so you can do it faster.

GW has only 8 quickslots in which you can put only skills into, but still you will have to keep up whith the pace of the game, that is why almost every thing can be hot keyed
(as side information selecting a teammember 1-12 or scroling trough all items on the ground like tabbing trough availabe foes can be hot keyed it however by default is not)
I get agivated that there is no button to scroll through minions or spirits, its just plain annoying.
having to inventory select potions and equip them may be a pretty hectic task.
BUT! guild wars has a good system for fast equiping already, if this clas was implemented there could be added 2 additional weapon set slots, when you create a potion it automatically goes into a empty/not currently active weapon slot(or in to that of a party member if you are using the skill on them) closed slots will be opened automatically and if there is no empty one the potion goes into one that is curently not being used.
It however may take some sharp preception to notice you received a potion(a non Symbolist might not be watching his/her weapon sets oftenly), but adding a effect in the affected by bar ('Carrying 5 Booze potion') should fix that.
to use a potion just swich to that weapon set and click drop item(or maby the same button with a use item text on it)
then you automatically swich back to your previous weapon set(and if the potion was over top of another weapon set the old weapon set goes back into the slot.

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 07, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Thanks for your thoughts, everything you have said is very true and if this class were to be implemented it will probably follow your example. Now I know that this class will be one of the more "hard core" ones and may or may not be liked by new players. (Now I may be flamed for this but...) I think that the assasins are quite simple to play compared to the ritualist. So what I belive anyway, is that guild wars wanted a class that is more "basic" and one that will need a lot more stradegy and thinking. Thus assasin and ritualist. So the symbolist could be seen as the "ritualist" (more difficult one). Another advantage is that Symbolists can play many roles but still its main focus will be drawing symbols. So I am still content with my tombstone ideas as it will serve as one of the uniqueness of this proffesion.
Another thing that I must say about your recent post is that you can scratch off potions. Why? Because they won't require any skill slots and can be seen as an added adition.
Another question I heard from my freind who read this is "what use is the Symbolist class as a secondery proffesion when it acts more like a hybrid in some ways?" Well my answer is the alchemy. Many people will want this attribute especially since it won't require any skill slots to use and instead you pick it out from a small windo in-combat. This system will make the Symbolist a unique secondery class for the others.
But the one thing that is most striking to me in your post is the adrenaline part. As this is more of an "un-decided" topic. If you can give me more reasons on why adrenaline is better than energy (for arcane) then I will consider changing it.

-Feel free to flame me

System_Crush · Nov 07, 2006, 08:39 AM // 08:39

I think I should perhaps use simpler and more to the point english, as I did not say to remove potions or replace energy.

About potions I said, GW is very fast paced other games allow you the time to use stuff like med packs or potions from your inventory.
In a Ascent battle for instance, I believe you won't have the time.
Therefor I believe EVERYTHING in GW should be hot keyable(even the thing that are not hotkeyed right now)

Thus I suggested that when a (new)potion is created it goes into a weapon set slot, default hot keyed under F1 F2 F4 F4.
And sugested F5 F6 would also be added to make room for 5 potions to be hot keyed.
They still stack and take inv space they just automaticaly hotkey themselves.

I also thought potions where made by skils just in combat, but just now I'v seen the new alchemy description which sais that potions are trade skilled. they go into a diferent balance category.

About Arcane inc VS. Tombstones
I gave it some thought, scratch arcane inc, Tombstones are cooler and give the class something unique.

however as you said you are still considering it, its your class so be as free as you want.

System_Crush · Nov 07, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

About alchemy
I thought they where made with skills(like ritualist ashes) if trade skilled, they would be balanced diferently and be much more logical they way you have said to implement them.

Are you going to have all alchemy things as trade skill creations or are some alchemy things normal skills too?

if you are going all trade skill there could be no elite potions, as in a town you can equip elites in turn and make as many diferent elite potions as you have ingredients for.

it is a good idea, especially with the engy class also high in the voting ranks, who use parts to create turrets, if that is implemented Anet could never say this is unimplementable.

1 thing though if a non symbolist grabs a lot of ingredients and gives them to a symbolist and asks him to make a lot of potions for him, he then goes to solo the lich or something alse that really hard and drops sweet loot, using potions he could act like a W/Mo/Sy because potions are usable by every profession and if made by a symbolist with high alchemy they are good enough to be very unblancing.

So I'm asking any1 who reads this:
If you have any idea of how to make players who want to use potions take a Symbolist, that has alchemy skilled up at that time, into his/her team.

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 07, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

About alchemy
I thought they where made with skills(like ritualist ashes) if trade skilled, they would be balanced diferently and be much more logical they way you have said to implement them.

Are you going to have all alchemy things as trade skill creations or are some alchemy things normal skills too?

if you are going all trade skill there could be no elite potions, as in a town you can equip elites in turn and make as many diferent elite potions as you have ingredients for.

it is a good idea, especially with the engy class also high in the voting ranks, who use parts to create turrets, if that is implemented Anet could never say this is unimplementable.

1 thing though if a non symbolist grabs a lot of ingredients and gives them to a symbolist and asks him to make a lot of potions for him, he then goes to solo the lich or something alse that really hard and drops sweet loot, using potions he could act like a W/Mo/Sy because potions are usable by every profession and if made by a symbolist with high alchemy they are good enough to be very unblancing.

So I'm asking any1 who reads this:
If you have any idea of how to make players who want to use potions take a Symbolist, that has alchemy skilled up at that time, into his/her team.

I see the problem that your stating. And I might as well edit something right away to get things cleared up.

What my new edits will be:

1)Potions can be given to team mates but they can only have a limited amount of potions as they have no skills in alchemy. The higher the skill in achemy and more potions you can receive. This means that non-symbolists will can only carry limit amounts of it.

2)Potions will be seen as a trade skill.

3)You can only have 1 elite potions at a time, and they will have a longer cooldown then others. Elite potions CANNOT be given to teams mates.

Hopefully these edits shall clear things up. Feel free to respond to it.

Dean Harper · Nov 07, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

you need to make some more symbols, including healing ones, as well as damage and condition ones.

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 08, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Harper

you need to make some more symbols, including healing ones, as well as damage and condition ones.

Yeah I know, been busy latly discussing issues posted before (alchemy). I'll add some new attacks now, which will be the three you said in your quate. So look for them in a few minutes

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 08, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Healing Ritual and Cleansing Ritual Symbolic spells have been added on the top of the edit section.

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 08, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

4 new spells created. Look at the edits section, (the top skills)

System_Crush · Nov 08, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryuken Tamashi

Healing Fountain Ritual" (Symbolic)-You Inscribe a triangle with the symbol of a Fountain. You must drop X TombStones in the circle. Once complete a fountain with water inside arrises. Players must go to the fountain and click on it. You recieve X health. When enemies near the fountain they recieve +X health degeneration. But they can destroy the fountain which has X health.

Cleansing Ritual (Symbolic)-You inscribe a triangle with a green Statue rising in the middle. All enemy enchants in earshot range are disabled for X seconds. Enemies can destroy the statue, but one random enchant of the enemy is removed within earshot.

Things that can't move have area effects(or attacks) and can be destroyed, sorta sounds like a spirit to me.

If symbols are symbols they have only a written manifestation, perhaps one that can be rubbed out by some water/wind effect, but not damaged directly with a weapon or spell.

You started out with nice and clean Symbols and Circles; it is a good idea stick to it, changing them into physical objects(statues, stones, fountains) makes it less clear waht this class is all about, also it contradicts the back story a bit.

A quick question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryuken Tamashi

You inscribe a triangle... ...All enemy enchants in earshot range...

If the shape of the inscription does not matter in the shape of the AoE the skill applies, then what is it used for?

Dean Harper · Nov 08, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

i also want to say that i jsut have a problem with tombstones...

they really do not fit in with the GW game. They just dont work.... i dont know. maybe the symbolist should focus more on sybolism instead of alchemy and the like. would make more sense if you had two lines of symbols, one healing and one damage. All of these symbols would need high cost to cast and also a long recharge time, unless you make some that cast quickly with low cost and do fairly little with effects. Ex:

Death Symbol: Symbol Ritual. You inscribe a symbol on the ground that has an AoE of 10...40 feet outside its diameter. Whenever a foe steps in this radius, that foe takes X amount of damage for every two seconds they are inside the radius. Every time the symbol inflicts damage, its maximum health decreases by 20...10.
Cast: 2sec Energy: 5 Recharge: 60sec

Then you can make a line for the weapon (another thing i dont like since being a up-front fighting caster who makes symbols doesnt seems like it will work) that deals additional damage with attacks. Or, you can also make a enchantment line that deals in keeping your health or energy up(you could also make some of those skills go in the healing symbol line). Otherwise, your new class seems kinda off the wall and too dificult to make the symbols by holding items that you carry around and drop. Overall, after reading your updates, im gonna say no to this class, unless it becomes different.

Dean Harper · Nov 08, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryuken Tamashi

Blazing Torpedo (Symbolic)-You inscribe a circle. A giant wave of torpedo is summoned for X seconds, and anyone near it is automatically knocked down and recieves X dmg. After the seconds duration is over. Everytime someone is adjacent to the circle is slowed. Lasts for X seconds.

you need to be more clear on what you mean:

Blazing Torpedo: You inscribe a circle. I dont get wat you mean in the first sentence, doesnt make sense. Second sentence doesnt make sense either (if you mean that after the time is up, the duration is over.... DUH ITS OVER!!!). After the initial wave, every time a foe is adjacent to the circle, that foe is slowed for X seconds.

You also need to tell us how much it costs and how fast it casts and recharges, like you did in ur edit.
When ur writing out skills, make sure u go back and read it so you know it makes sense. What you wrote there DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

-Dean

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 09, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Harper

i also want to say that i jsut have a problem with tombstones...

they really do not fit in with the GW game. They just dont work.... i dont know. maybe the symbolist should focus more on sybolism instead of alchemy and the like. would make more sense if you had two lines of symbols, one healing and one damage. All of these symbols would need high cost to cast and also a long recharge time, unless you make some that cast quickly with low cost and do fairly little with effects. Ex:

Death Symbol: Symbol Ritual. You inscribe a symbol on the ground that has an AoE of 10...40 feet outside its diameter. Whenever a foe steps in this radius, that foe takes X amount of damage for every two seconds they are inside the radius. Every time the symbol inflicts damage, its maximum health decreases by 20...10.
Cast: 2sec Energy: 5 Recharge: 60sec

Then you can make a line for the weapon (another thing i dont like since being a up-front fighting caster who makes symbols doesnt seems like it will work) that deals additional damage with attacks. Or, you can also make a enchantment line that deals in keeping your health or energy up(you could also make some of those skills go in the healing symbol line). Otherwise, your new class seems kinda off the wall and too dificult to make the symbols by holding items that you carry around and drop. Overall, after reading your updates, im gonna say no to this class, unless it becomes different.

I am sorry but Tombstones MUST be in the game. Otherwise the Symbolist is nothing but another ele/melee fighter and that's it. At least with tombstones there is some amount of stradegy behind it.

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 09, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Harper

you need to be more clear on what you mean:

Blazing Torpedo: You inscribe a circle. I dont get wat you mean in the first sentence, doesnt make sense. Second sentence doesnt make sense either (if you mean that after the time is up, the duration is over.... DUH ITS OVER!!!). After the initial wave, every time a foe is adjacent to the circle, that foe is slowed for X seconds.

You also need to tell us how much it costs and how fast it casts and recharges, like you did in ur edit.
When ur writing out skills, make sure u go back and read it so you know it makes sense. What you wrote there DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

-Dean

Don't quite see the problem you have here. It's a blast of water striking adjacent targets, and afterwards (after the strike) the symbol stays for X seconds and when enemies step in it they are slowed. Please explain your problem a bit more.

Ryuken Tamashi · Nov 09, 2006, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

Things that can't move have area effects(or attacks) and can be destroyed, sorta sounds like a spirit to me.

If symbols are symbols they have only a written manifestation, perhaps one that can be rubbed out by some water/wind effect, but not damaged directly with a weapon or spell.

You started out with nice and clean Symbols and Circles; it is a good idea stick to it, changing them into physical objects(statues, stones, fountains) makes it less clear waht this class is all about, also it contradicts the back story a bit.

A quick question

If the shape of the inscription does not matter in the shape of the AoE the skill applies, then what is it used for?

Alright you're aboslotly right, Ill change the statues to simple symbols. sorry that I didn't think of it before.